Wednesday Group
Weekly Recordings
Weekly Recordings
Book Club Chat:
P:Confession…I didn’t read it
L:Sorry. It is dance night and it is a little late every Wednesday.
M:WHAT THE #%_#%<!!!!
M:Congrats on not clawing her eyes out!
M: "I wish you diarrhea and scabies"
G: Reacted to "I wish you diarrhea..." with 😂
L: Reacted to ""I wish you diarrhea..." with 😂
N: Fierce Compassion
M: I could probably use that LOL
M:Fierce Self-Compassion
S: here's a link to the book
https://amzn.to/3Y60Fkr
M: Reacted to "here's a link to the..." with 👏
K: Thanks Sam!
L: I have an Oakley! She Rocks!!!
L: It’s hard!!! LOL!
M: I was in UT this weekend and thought a similar thing. All of this, millions of dollars because of a farm boy
S: yeah, I can't wait to get out of Utah
L:A crappy farm boy that didn’t want to work! LOL!
s: Enmeshment and co-dependency runs deep in mormon culture
N: I’m sorry you got to experience the horrors of “kindness” 😢
N: What is this “limits” or “boundaries” of which you speak?
M: Win boundaries. LOL
L: In a way you did win because you spoke your truth.
L: YES! S! That was awesome!
L:I still can't get into the Facebook group.
M: I enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing!
s: In the book she talks about temporary discomfort for long term personal peace
M: Reacted to "In the book she talk..." with ❤️
L: Reacted to "In the book she talk..." with ❤️
L: Replying to "In the book she talk..."
I really do believe that works! It is just hard.
L: Thank you for that! ❤️
L: There is definitely grieving for hopes of what I want her to be
L: That describes my entire relationship with my dad.
N: Reacted to "There is definitely …" with 👍
N: Did you explicitly state the “selectively deep” boundaries?
N: Same, L
L: Reacted to "Same, Lori" with 💔
N: Thank you 🙏
L: My dad won’t even text me or talk to me. It all goes through my mom.
Natasha Helfer : Radical acceptance and no expectations
L: Thank you.
S:Muting and unfollowing has been so good for me with certain people
H: I have a situation that I'm not sure how to handle. There is a friend in my circle of friends who said something really hurtful to me pre-pandemic and I didn't address it then. Because of the pandemic I really haven't seen her but now she wants to hang out again at Disneyland. During the pandemic I re-evaluated my friendships and realized that she was exhausting for me to be around. I reflected on other times when she was self absorbed and gossipy. I really don't care to spend time with her anymore but I can't fully cut her out because she is still invited to parties I go to. I'm not sure if I should bring up that past event when she hurt me or find a way to avoid spending time with her at Disneyland or other events. I have such a hard time making clear boundaries but I want to do that with all of my relationships. (sorry I'm not saying this in the video - I just got home from work and am cooking dinner and I'm not in a private space at home)
H:Ah, this is good, Jana. Thank you so much. Focus on my own validation. I think she doesn't have the maturity to handle a deep conversation. I can focus on moving on while being cordial to her. I will limit any face to face interactions.
A: H, I have a friendship and situation similar to this. We had a fall out several years ago, and have since become closer again. But we have never acknowledged or discussed the crap that happened, but that's been intentional on my side. I just don't want to get into it and don't think it would benefit me at this point to go back and hash out old things. So now I just show up in our relationship differently. I've learned that I didn't have good boundaries with her before, which is a good part of why things blew up, but I can be friendly with her while keeping interactions more on the surface.
A: Sorry, also not able to talk out loud at the moment! Thanks for reading :)
L: I would decide what behaviors I'm willing to do. She starts gossiping "I'm not interested in discussing this. Did you see we're getting a lot of snow next week”
H: Reacted to "I would decide what …" with 👍
H:Reacted to "Sorry, also not able…" with 👍
H:Reacted to "Holly, I have a frie…" with 👍
L: "I respect that we both have really big feelings about X, so we don't have to discuss it, if you're not comfortable. I'd like to talk about it. Would you be comfortable with taking about it?"
Also if you have other things in common. I have friends I only discuss crochet with, but not politics etc
H: Reacted to ""I respect that we b…" with 👍
S: Even if you use the “for me” language, what if whoever I’m talking to can’t believe that I believe that way. Like they are almost attacking my opinion. What is a good way to set a boundary with that person and maintain the relationship?
A: I love this. Not getting so caught up in the content.
H: Reacted to "I love this. Not get…" with 👍
G: Reacted to "I love this. Not get..." with 👍
L: Replying to "Even if you use the ..."
My experience with this has been that if they can't believe you about what you're experiencing, maintaining an intimate relationship is important. I can be civil and cordial and care, but I keep them at a distance
S: Replying to "Even if you use the ..."
Yes, I agree, but it’s a little harder with a spouse.
L: Replying to "Even if you use the ..."
Yeah that's way harder with a spouse. Do you have someone else you can process church feelings (or whatever it is) with?
S: Hugs Jana. It sucks not feeling understood
S: Replying to "Even if you use the ..."
Yes. I just am looking for way to stop the direction that he tries to take the situation. Maybe something like, “I’m no longer comfortable with this conversation.” ? But I don’t want that to drive a deeper wedge in the relationship.
L: Replying to "Even if you use the ..."
Would something like "I want to maintain the closeness of our relationship and us discussing the church is not helping us stay close. I don't want to talk about this anymore.
L: Replying to "Even if you use the ..." work?
G: I have a question ... Is telling someone that they're "coming across" a certain way a good way to phrase it? Or is there a better way?
L: Replying to "I have a question ....."
Would "when you X I feel Y" work?
Jana: Thanks Stephanie
S: Thank you!
S: No that’s great!
H: Thanks Jana!
S: Thank you Jana
J: Thanks Jana!
P: Thank you!
E:You’re great! Thank you!!
G: Thank you!
L: Thank you!
January Week 3 Chat
S: Hi, I’m S coming from Idaho Falls, ID. I am in my first year of faith transition.
S2: Hi S2 from Texas. She/her. Deconstructing for almost 1 year
M: What kind of residency E?
N: What part of Montana?
L: I would be clear on the why for telling them before. I also know that if you treat it casually that's more likely to be mirrored
N: Has there been indication of concerns in the past? (Either from you to them or them to you?)
M: my tale is a case of what not to do! ;)
M: sacrifice a chicken for you
M: I have to remind myself that this is their version of love. It helps me not take it so personally
A: YES. my dad told me pretty firmly that it's very important I raise my children in the church. I just told him I appreciate his input and that those decisions will be made between my husband and me.
E: Thanks for all the comments and advice, everybody! My family is from Bozeman. I think my parents know something is up with us (my mom asked me why I don’t wear my garments), but have no idea the extent of it.
It’s a clinical pharmacy residency 🙂
M: I was textbook on what NOT to do with my spouse too…
M: my son gets home from his mission next month. I'm nervous to have the conversation with him. He knows I left but I feel like I want to talk to him about why which I didn't feel was appropriate on his mission,
L: honesty vs. compassion
M: Temple presidents?! That is rough E!
M: It's been hard with my siblings too. Apparently there is Team Jesus and Team Heathen
L: I have this question too!
S: Is the audio wonky for anyone else? Ali sounds like she is cutting out.
N: She is
L: Yes. If she turns off her camera it will help the audio.
A: Sorry, I see your comments now. Sorry you couldn't hear me!
A: Basically how do I manage my relationship with family after telling them. It feels awkward.
St: I’m the opposite. I’m sad that my family doesn’t want to talk about things. I’m trying to deal with the loss of intimacy in my close relationships
S: You sound fine. Can you repeat her question?
M: Not even close to 5 or 6 at this point :(
M: My mom said she'd talk to me about it when she's ready. 9 months later….
L: "I don't want to talk about the church, but I love talking to you. How's x?
N: Is it possible/recommended to prepare for the intimacy/working through issues to be rejected?(Meaning if we want to work through it but the other party doesn’t)
A: Thank you! Sorry about the audio
N: Isn’t life “us against them” at a basic level?
M: my hubby tells me to go to make them uncomfortable when they say junk like that
N: Or is that the point: overcoming instinct?
L: It feels like that a lot. The group think it's a survival mechanism and it's hard to challenge that
N: Replying to "my hubby tells me to…"I am sorry :(. But if that is your comfort level, sounds great(Says the person who can’t tell anyone about my change of heart)
L: My son doesn’t want to talk about it. It is breaking my heart, but I just have to accept where he is at. It is hard.
L: Oh good. I’m already there! 😆
A: leaning in to allll the emotions that grief brings up. there's no right or wrong way to grieve--it's a lot of allowing and accepting whatever shows up. hard stuff.
N: Is that “situational”vs “chemical” depression?
M: I talked to my doctor and said "I left my religion and I'm super happy but I'm also depressed which is weird because I feel so much better”
N: Apologies for using a legacy/invalid term
N: Eeyore is my spirit animal
H: Sorry I’m not visible tonight (I’m cooking at the moment).
About grief work:
I am currently doing
1) talk therapy,
2) prescription medication (Celexa) and now
3) Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS)
E: I’m mind-blown right now with that idea
S1: My goal is find peace with myself and my decisions.
M: you have to know the good to know the bad. LOL
N : Replying to "you have to know the…”True. Sad. But still true
J: <3 thx group! hats off and see you next week. i'm on the east coast and it's late and I'm going to sign off. <3
N: Does he know you left/changed?
N: Mormon families have their own messed up “normal”
N: Have you been able to prep him for coming home?
M: He knows I left. Not why I left. I didn't think it was appropriate
E: I remember my dad telling his missionaries that the level of sadness/harder it was to come home was an indication of how good of a missionary you were 🥴
L: I think you can talk about the concern without talking about the church. I.e. I think I was too hard on you when x and I regret any harm that caused
N: Replying to "Have you been able t…"I know minimal people on my mission were prepped for the changes
L: To clarify…my son will talk to me, but religion is not a topic that he wants to talk about and I respect that.
G: Replying to "I remember my dad te..." Yikes.
L: Thank you so much for all that you do!
January Week 2 Chat
CHAT
Natasha: Please use the chat to introduce yourselves… geography, how long you’ve been in transition, how you would identify these days…
M: Tulsa. 11 months. atheist
H: Hi! I resigned from LDS church a couple of years ago. Surprised that it is still hard. I live in San Diego.
S: I'm from Utah, I've been out for just under 4 years. I'm definitely out, name no longer on the records
A: I’m in UT. I've been struggling with LDS church for about 4 years. Have stepped away over the past year or so. Husband is still involved.
Natasha: Immoral heathens atheists are….;)
E: Hi Everyone! I’m live in Georgia. My husband and I have been completely “out” of the church for about a year now…but have not told our extremely believing families.
L: I live in Utah and stopped going a year and a half ago. I identify as "Mormon adjacent”
B: Logan, Utah, shelf broke May 2022 after watching Under the Banner of Heaven, and I began reading and listening to everything. No longer believing in LDS truth claims or Christian truth claims. Agnostic, I guess, or believing in a Creator or Source. Haven’t told my parents or siblings much of anything yet.
J: Brava M… that is a great boundary
L: I was born and raised but stopped going about 18 years ago....as soon as I could move out of my parents house. It has come back up because hard for me for the past year and a half as I tried having a relationships with my TBM sisters.
G: It can go the other way too, parents measuring their own success by their kids' temple marriages, etc.
M: so true
S: I’m sorry I was waiting in the wrong zoom link. What is the topic tonight?
M: my sibling did the same about their kids and my mom was devastated
A: B, just wanted to say I relate--I shared with my parents over the summer and it was very scary for me. I decided to be honest, but not give too much detail. I started the conversation by saying that I was nervous to have this conversation because I value our relationship so much, an that having an open and honest relationship with them is important to me, but in order to have that, I have to be open and honest. My mom is similar to you it sounds like--she was very sad and tearful throughout the conversation and I was too. But I felt SO MUCH relief after I finally shared. I had been increasingly anxious around my family before I finally told them. Sorry this is so long!
M: sharing our faith transition
L: navigating close relationships during our faith transition
N: I am sorry 😢 There is a stress being in the other foot as well (the only believing member left for a long time and having the identity as the Believing one). So, for me, I can’t come out to anyone in real life. I hope you can find a way to help your mom know you still love her. And that she can hear it
N: The answer to my prayers have changed
H: hard truth
B: Thanks for sharing, A!
M: such a good question!
N: Fair is fair (deathbed conversion out)
M: my grandpa is doing great and I'm worried about my parents and they feel like I'm being atheist AT them
E: I can 1000% relate to that. My mom has an ICD and really scary heart problems with some close calls this past year. I have been wrestling with the thought of her having a literal heart attack with the news…or her dying before she ever comes around and is at least civil.
S: one thing I love that Brene Brown says often is that you only share your story with those you feel have earned the right to your story
M: I like that! I just announced it because I didn't want a million conversations. I wanted to get it over with and be done. but that method seems very healthy
L: M I did the same
M: rip off the bandaid. lol
E: I am planning on writing a letter so I am not there for their initial reaction
N: My husband is one of 8, and 7 are married. When we left, and we let everyone know, 2 others came to us on the side saying that they were on their way out too.
M: it gives them time to process too E
J: I was able to reconnect to a SIL quite closely after I sent a general, simplistic text to my sibling group. That was an unexpected bonus.
L: I felt it came to the point I had to hold a zoom meeting with my family as they kept referring to me as LDS/Mormon when I clearly identified as NOT Mormon. It wasn’t pleasant but they actually would confuse me about my own identity. If that makes sense. It messed up my reality.
M: my mom hasn't called me since I left. not even on my birthday. it sucks to lose that hugs
S: I’m so sorry M! That is so hard!
J: Whew… that’s hard.
E: So sorry, M. That makes me sick.
L: that is hard!
N: It’s so hard to lose that relationship. I wish I could hug you. 💖
G: M, so sorry to hear. That sucks. 💜
N: I’ve become sort of an aunt figure to a lot of displaced humans due to losing relationships through different troubles. There are people out there, I hope there is someone for you 💖 you have us for good vibes and solidarity support ♥️
M: ❤️ you'd want to be close their final years, but here we are, and is there time to repair it?
N: Sometimes the transitioner is the last out, which is differently difficult
A: It's very brave to step into a space of honoring yourself rather than appeasing the family "system". It is hard, but you're doing a brave and strong thing.
N: I am sorry 😢
Natasha: Book Recommendation: How Minds Change
L: I’ve tried having those relationships with my blood family and it has unfortunately disappointed me every time. It's not your fault for relationships failing for doing what feels right to you!! Blood or not!! Much love to all!
N: I’m learning all of these things (boundaries, self care, critical thinking skills) year, and it’s been HARD work. I was explaining that horrifying video of the mom who goes through her whole day doing everything for everyone else (called You Never Know How Much Good You Do) and her jaw dropped. We were taught how normal that is to give everything of yourself, and God will make up the rest, but he didn’t. And now we have to learn something new, taking care of ourselves and functioning in a healthy way. It’s so hard but it’s so worth it.
G: That video = 🤬
M: How Minds Change by David McRaney if you're wondering.
N: I remember watching that video as a TBM and it was like “oh I need to do more” watching it with my opened eyes, I was horrified.
M: I’ll get better! LOL
cue angel choir
Natasha: Book for book club: Leaving the Fold
